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Author Topic: More or Les (was Bloody Plurals)  (Read 162426 times)
TRex
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« Reply #2490 on: May 26, 2019, 01:41:45 AM »

A baby is only a 'foetus' when those who have the power want to kill him/her.

A foetus is only a baby to those who believe that they should be able to tell a pregnant woman what she can and can't do with her own body. Their view is far more important and they wish to impose it on everyone else. How arrogant.

Demonstrably false. Ask any couple expecting a baby. They refer to the baby moving, the baby's ultrasounds, etc.

Quote
Abortionists act more in their own self-interest (getting rich for a quick procedure) than in anyone else's interest.

Sorry, TRex, but that's a terrible sweeping statement. They very much act in the interest of a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant.

A sweeping statement, yes. And demonstrably true by examining financial records.
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pat
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« Reply #2491 on: May 26, 2019, 02:33:51 AM »

Quote
A foetus is only a baby to those who believe that they should be able to tell a pregnant woman what she can and can't do with her own body.
Demonstrably false. Ask any couple expecting a baby. They refer to the baby moving, the baby's ultrasounds, etc.
Actually, to call a foetus a baby is completely incorrect. Of course people expecting a baby refer to their foetus as a baby - that's what they're expecting to get in 9 months' time. But it's factually incorrect:
"Foetus: the embryo of a mammal in the later stages of development... especially a human embryo from the end of the second month of pregnancy UNTIL BIRTH." That's when the foetus becomes a baby.
Quote
Abortionists act more in their own self-interest (getting rich for a quick procedure) than in anyone else's interest.

Quote
Sorry, TRex, but that's a terrible sweeping statement. They very much act in the interest of a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant.

Quote
A sweeping statement, yes. And demonstrably true by examining financial records.

They provide a service. Of course they're going to charge for that service, but they'd never make a penny were it not for women who don't want to be pregnant.


And as an aside...I wouldn't find the killing of a terrorist who was about to kill innocent victims regrettable in the slightest.
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TRex
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« Reply #2492 on: May 26, 2019, 02:40:55 AM »

Pat, you obviously have a much lower regard for human life than do I. What a shame.

'Foetus' is fine as a medical term for baby. But an expecting couple are not incorrect to refer to their baby. Anyone attempting to 'correct' them would be cruel. And wrong.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 02:43:31 AM by TRex » Logged
pat
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« Reply #2493 on: May 26, 2019, 03:03:57 AM »

Pat, you obviously have a much lower regard for human life than do I. What a shame.

If you mean that I obviously don't view all human life as 'sacred' (in religious terms) or otherwise precious, then you're absolutely right. I'm anti-war, anti-death penalty, generally anti-killing, but there are some people on this planet whose absence would make it a better and safer place. I'm not advocating going out and killing those people but I wouldn't shed a tear at their demise. (And in case you're wondering how my views on abortion fit into anti-killing, I'm neither for nor against it. I simply believe that a woman should have absolute dominion over her own body. No one will ever convince me otherwise.)
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TRex
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« Reply #2494 on: May 26, 2019, 03:31:41 AM »

If you mean that I obviously don't view all human life as 'sacred' (in religious terms) or otherwise precious, then you're absolutely right.
Which is what I think is a shame.

I'm anti-war, anti-death penalty, generally anti-killing, but there are some people on this planet whose absence would make it a better and safer place. I'm not advocating going out and killing those people but I wouldn't shed a tear at their demise.
I believe people can change for the better and should be given the opportunity to do so.

(And in case you're wondering how my views on abortion fit into anti-killing, I'm neither for nor against it. I simply believe that a woman should have absolute dominion over her own body. No one will ever convince me otherwise.)
Once there is another body, another human being (and any doctor will tell you when treating a pregnant mother is treating two patients), the other human being is due equal consideration. When any society demeans the value of a human being because of his/her dependency or weakness, the entire society is degraded. And Western society is very sick.
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pat
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« Reply #2495 on: May 26, 2019, 03:41:55 AM »

Once there is another body, another human being (and any doctor will tell you when treating a pregnant mother is treating two patients), the other human being is due equal consideration.

I think that's something we'll never agree on, TRex, the fact that a bunch of cells in a woman's womb is a human being. It will become one, but it's not one yet, and if circumstances call for one or the other to take preference then in my view that has to be the woman.
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TRex
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« Reply #2496 on: May 26, 2019, 04:13:38 AM »

I think that's something we'll never agree on, TRex, the fact that a bunch of cells in a woman's womb is a human being. It will become one, but it's not one yet, and if circumstances call for one or the other to take preference then in my view that has to be the woman.

If a situation exists (e.g. ectopic pregnancy) where the baby must be sacrificed so the mother may live, then one death is to be preferred to two (though still regrettable). But in situations where the mother's life is not in danger, a baby should be allowed to live and, if unwanted, given for adoption.
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anona
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« Reply #2497 on: May 26, 2019, 06:53:35 AM »

I know picking random facts from the internet can be dodgy, but I wondered whether countries that didn't permit abortion after rape did allow close family marriage. I didn't do a thorough research job on this, but did find:

"Marriage between first cousins, however, is legal in only about half of American states. Which States Allows First Cousin Marriages? As you'll see, many states allow first cousin marriages only if there will be no offspring from those marriages." (How is this monitored, and what is done about it if there are offspring?)

I didn't find the figures specifically for incest pregnancies in the USA, but there's this:

"In some countries where abortion is illegal after rape and incest, over 90% of pregnancies in girls age 15 and under are due to rape by family members."

There seems an inconsistency if the same country doesn't permit children to be born into a loving but incestuous relationship, but insists they must be born if they are the result of an abusive incestuous relationship - if the reason for the former is the likelihood of the offspring having health problems, that is.

Different articles gave evidence from studies to prove either that pregnant rape victims welcomed the thought of the child as a positive outcome to the rape or the reverse, depending, I felt from the tone of the writing, on the writer's own personal beliefs regarding abortion.

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Ozzyjack
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« Reply #2498 on: May 26, 2019, 01:43:22 PM »

My view is not 'based on a conservative religious view'.
And the majority isn't always right.

I apologise for using the term "conservative religious view".  Ethical views are the province of the religious and the non-religious alike. I believe, TRex, that you are a man of the highest ethical principles and I admire you for it.

I agree that the majority is not always right. The outcome of our recent election proves that.  Wink.  But neither are the minorities and even individuals of the highest ethical principles always right.

I have enjoyed appreciated this discussion.  Although it is on a subject which there are intense, widely diverse and passionate views, the debate has been conducted in a respectful manner.

Pat has eloquently outlined a position which I support.  Linda has demonstrated why the death penalty should not be legal - at least where the standard of proof is Beyond Reasonable Doubt, because there have been many mistakes. Anona has raised some interesting issues on rape and incest.

Although in the main this thread is light-hearted and jokey, I would like to see from time to time that we have discussions on serious subjects because we can get input from a wide spectrum of views.  It would be good if we could encourage others to participate.

But I must get back to  constructing a light-hearted post to see if Pen has recovered from her Colleague's Retirement Celebration.
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Cheers, Jack



“Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.” ― Bertrand Russell
Ozzyjack
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« Reply #2499 on: May 26, 2019, 04:34:54 PM »

Hi Pen,



I hope you didn’t have any gate-crashers at your dinner on Friday night.  There are always good tales told at retirement parties - are there any you can share?  I hope dinner was a bit better than fish fingers. Demon

While you were dining,I was picking horses.  I got $272 from a $120 investment on Saturday, so my syndicate are happy with me.  Now I must pick again next week.

           
 
Quote
The retired guy goes to the doctor and says, “Doc, I ache all over. Everywhere I touch it hurts.”

The doctor replies, “OK. Touch your elbow.” The guy touches his elbow and winces in genuine pain.

The doctor, surprised, then states, “Touch your head.”

The guy touches his head and jumps in agony. The doctor asks him to touch his knee and the same thing happens. Everywhere the guy touches he hurts a lot.

The doctor is stumped and orders a complete examination with X-rays, etc. He tells the guy to come back in two days.

Two days later the guy comes back and the doctor declares, “We’ve found your problem.”

Oh yeah? What is it?” asks the retiree.

“You’ve broken your finger!

Quote

The crusty old bugger that lived next door to me in the 90’s retired and decided to take an overseas trip.  When he arrived at the Aéroport Charles de Gaulle' customs desk, he fumbled around and took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry-on bag.

You have been to France before, monsieur?” the customs officer asked, sarcastically. My neighbour said he had been to France previously.

Then you should know enough to have your passport ready.”

My Neighbour said, “The last time I was here, I didn’t have to show it.

Impossible, Australians always have to show their passports on arrival in France!”

My neighbour gave the Frenchman a long hard look, then he quietly explained, “Well, when I came ashore at Normandy on D-Day in 1944 to help liberate this country, I couldn’t find any Frenchmen to show it to.”

While you have your tea, I go and Demon walk the dog

Viagra is now available in powder form for your tea. It doesn't enhance sexual performance but it does stop your biscuit going soft.

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Cheers, Jack



“Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.” ― Bertrand Russell
Hobbit
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« Reply #2500 on: May 27, 2019, 12:14:25 AM »

Quote

I agree that the majority is not always right. The outcome of our recent election proves that.  Wink.  But neither are the minorities and even individuals of the highest ethical principles always right.

Pat has eloquently outlined a position which I support.  Linda has demonstrated why the death penalty should not be legal - at least where the standard of proof is Beyond Reasonable Doubt, because there have been many mistakes. Anona has raised some interesting issues on rape and incest.

Hi Jack

Before I address Gill's retirement dinner I would just like to say that I wholeheartedly agree with your comments.

We had a smashing evening.  The food & company were excellent Smiley  Not a fish finger in sight! There was a lot of laughter & a few tears shed.  Gill & I have worked together for 15 years & she will be sorely missed.  Her cousin is Hattie Hayridge who was Holly in Red Dwarf.  She has obviously inherited the comedy gene as she
is always quick with a funny quip.  We didn't have any gate-crashers &, sadly, no tales to tell - repeatable or otherwise!

Here's my retirement joke offering!

A priest was being honoured at his retirement dinner after 25 years in the parish. A leading local politician, who was also a member of the congregation, was chosen to make the presentation and give a little leaving speech at the dinner. He was delayed so the priest decided to say his own few words while they waited.

'I got my first impression of the parish from the first confession I heard here. I thought I had been assigned to a terrible place. The very first person who entered my confessional told me he had stolen a television set and, when stopped by the police, had almost murdered the officer. He had stolen money from his parents, embezzled from his place of business, had an affair with his boss's wife, taken illegal drugs. I was appalled. But as the days went on I knew that my people were not all like that and I had, indeed, come to a fine parish full of good and loving people.'
 
Just as the priest finished his talk the politician arrived full of apologies at being late. He immediately began to make the presentation and give his speech.

'I'll never forget the first day our parish priest arrived, 'said the politician.' In fact, I had the honour of being the first one to go to him in confession.'

      

With apologies to Zephyr I'm leaving you with a little snippet of Simon's Cat
Bed Head

Why do dogs always race to the door when the doorbell rings?  It's hardly ever for them laugh

Pen





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TRex
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« Reply #2501 on: May 27, 2019, 04:21:33 AM »

I agree that the majority is not always right. The outcome of our recent election proves that.  Wink.
That thought crossed my mind as I was typing! (Thinking of The Dump.)

Linda has demonstrated why the death penalty should not be legal - at least where the standard of proof is Beyond Reasonable Doubt, because there have been many mistakes.
Particularly in the USA, especially where the accused is destitute.
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Ozzyjack
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« Reply #2502 on: May 27, 2019, 04:24:16 PM »

With apologies to Zephyr I'm leaving you with a little snippet of Simon's Cat
Pen

Hi Pen,

Zephyr did his best Queen Victoria impression but instead of saying We are not Amused he said Cats Can Be A Real Pain In The Grass.  The last three minutes is the skit you sent me but I am including it because the first 6 minutes are a scream

Zephyr seems to be enjoying life at the moment.  Apart from being a bit thin and having limited stamina, he is his normal self and as cunning as all get-out.  He won't eat dog food, but roast beef, turkey or ham slices or meat pies are just fine, thank you.  So, he is eating better than I am. Cheesy

No golf today. At the time I would normally go, it was 5oC which with the chill factor felt like -5oC.  The wind speed was 40 km/h gusting to 55 km/h.  To make it more pleasant there were occasional patches of drizzle.  I wish we had an old-fashioned open fire because it would be great to settle down in front of it with a bottle of Port.  It doesn't seem the same with central heating but I'm tempted all the same.

No theme today:

   


I need a port, sport


« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 04:28:42 PM by Ozzyjack » Logged

Cheers, Jack



“Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.” ― Bertrand Russell
Jacki
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« Reply #2503 on: May 27, 2019, 04:44:12 PM »

Dear Ozzyjack - got your email. Thanks. Couldn't work out how to reply back to you so have to do it publicly. Very hush hush, wink wink. Cheers
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Hobbit
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« Reply #2504 on: May 27, 2019, 07:42:40 PM »

Hi Jack

It's Bank Holiday Monday & I'm at work & fairly grumpy
   

However, I've watched Simon's Cat twice & that made me laugh out loud.  Hilarious laugh

I'm so pleased that Zephyr is enjoying life.  Why not spoil him?  I love the sound of his diet Hungry  Can't remember when I last had roast beef & yorkshire pud.  Neither Zoe or I like it cold & you can't really get a joint small enough for 2.  Steak is lovely but just not the same!

In the interest of fair play I thought I should include a couple of dogs!
(think I might be repeating but hope not!)

         

I hope you're snuggled up next to the radiator enjoying a nice glass of port
Spare a thought for the workers!
Pen

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