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Author Topic: 7-by-many puzzles using the letter S  (Read 511 times)
Alan W
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« on: July 04, 2019, 03:53:01 PM »

Responding to a question from giratinaman, 7-by-many puzzles created under the "Your Puzzles" tab may now include the letter S. Where a puzzle does have an S, the rules about which words can be used ending in that letter are the same as in other puzzle types. And, as for other puzzle types, you have the option of creating a puzzle where all words ending in S are permitted.

For the time being puzzles under the 7-by-many table - daily or random - will continue to have no occurrences of the letter S. This could change in the future depending on the player response to the change in Your Puzzles.
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Alan Walker
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doxydaisy
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2019, 05:10:02 PM »

Thanks very much Alan. I just tried a 7-by-many puzzle using the letter S and can definitely say I'm not a fan. I think these puzzles are challenging enough without throwing plurals into the mix.. just my opinion.
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Leedscot
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2019, 06:58:16 PM »

For what it’s worth, I agree with doxydaisy. And personally I always avoid puzzles under the “Your Puzzles” tab of any variety that include an S and allow plurals.
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pat
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2019, 07:57:29 PM »

I'm puzzled by the dislike of puzzles (no pun intended) containing S. Under the normal playing rules most plurals aren't allowed so... well, what's the problem? I'm probably missing something here, but as far as I can see, rejecting puzzles containing S simply rejects a sizeable percentage of words in the English language. There are several in this post, excluding plurals (although some are too short for Chi). Someone please enlighten me!
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Alan W
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2019, 10:05:23 PM »

Perhaps I didn't explain things clearly.

7-by-many puzzles will normally exclude most plurals ending in S, in exactly the same way as 9 and 10-letter puzzles do. There is an option to allow all plurals (as there is for all Your Puzzles) but you don't have to use it.
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Alan Walker
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2019, 01:46:53 AM »

It wasn’t your explanation I didn’t understand, Alan, but people’s aversion to puzzles containing S. Unless I’ve misunderstood them of course.
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doxydaisy
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2019, 11:07:07 AM »

Just to clear things up with my post, I don't have a problem with words containing the letter S - just the plurals. They have caused a lot of confusion over what is allowed and what isn't. I'm not being negative nellie here.. Alan is asking for responses to these puzzles and I gave my opinion.

Thank you again Alan for doing such a great job. If the letter S is included in the 7-by-many puzzles it certainly won't stop me playing them!
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giratinaman
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2019, 02:55:18 PM »

Thank you so much for the update. I can understand that people could find it overwhelming just because it adds so many words to the mix. I by no means intended to impose this on anybody. I was just curious if it were something that could be personalized or other people were interested in. If people don’t like it maybe there could be a check box to turn the letter s on and off if that’s doable?
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Alan W
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2019, 05:04:30 PM »

In Your Puzzles, a player can choose to play only puzzles lacking an S. And if you don't see a puzzle without an S, you can create your own puzzle - and keep creating them until you get one without an S. (If you don't publish a puzzle, nobody else will see it.)
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Alan Walker
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Leedscot
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2019, 05:11:14 PM »

I just prefer the ones without an S because it keeps the total number of words lower, which I prefer. And I like to keep my “100%” as long as I can, which is often made more difficult by trying to remember which S plurals are allowed and which aren’t. Just my personal way of playing; and as Alan says, one can always just avoid playing those ones. There’s so much variety built into the puzzles that there’s something for everyone. Thanks again, Alan.
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pat
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2019, 08:26:10 PM »

I just prefer the ones without an S because it keeps the total number of words lower...

Perhaps I'm thick, but I don't understand that, given that the vast majority of plurals aren't allowed. Surely the best letter to avoid in order to keep the number of words lower would be E.
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Jacki
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2019, 12:14:17 AM »

I don't think it's a matter of being thick or not. Allan asked what people preferred and some said they wanted the 7-by-many puzzles free of s's because it's already pretty challenging. That's their preference. Personally I don't do the 7-by-many because it is so tricky and one of things I struggled with when I started playing Chi was the plurals.
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pat
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« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2019, 02:27:52 AM »

Jacki, I genuinely don't understand why the presence of the letter S in a puzzle makes it more challenging. I'm not questioning or disagreeing with anyone's preference, just looking for an answer to that question.
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rogue_mother
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« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2019, 03:11:05 AM »

Perhaps doxydaisy's and Leedscot's comments would have been clearer if they had distinguished between puzzles that allow plurals and puzzles that do not. In most puzzles, allowing the letter s as one of the seed letters is not going to increase the number of words in a puzzle. The size of the puzzle is specified by the generator. Allowing simple plurals (those that are created by the simple addition of s) does increase the size of the puzzle, particularly for jumbo-sized puzzles. As I write this there is an active puzzle in Your Puzzles that has 950 words, 266 of which are common! Absurd. But it is easy to avoid generating or playing such monstrosities without avoiding the letter s.

Those of us who have been playing Chihuahua from the beginning or nearly so don't find the issue of plurals nearly so confusing as doxydaisy and other newcomers do. The rule on the home page of Chihuahua is very straightforward: "You cannot use plurals and verb forms made by adding S to the end of a base word". The reality is different. We have seen Alan's policy on them evolve over the years. We may even have been part of the discussions that led to the way things are now. Remember PANTS? Alan addresses these exceptions on the Questions and Answers page, but I wonder how many people actually look there.

I myself truly enjoy the 7 by many puzzles. When the idea was first put forward, I was a bit uncertain, but when they were introduced I jumped in with both feet. I failed to notice that s had been excluded. I'm glad it has been made available in the Your Puzzles pool. As long is it is available there, I doubt I will miss it in the daily puzzle.
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Alan W
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« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2019, 03:13:58 PM »

The puzzle size (number of common words) rule is applied with the permitted plural words taken into account. So a small puzzle (15 to 25 words) with all plurals allowed should have no more than 25 common words, whether S is one of the letters or not. The maximum size for the medium and large options is applied in the same way.

Of course the jumbo option, with no maximum size, can get very large, and possibly those allowing all plurals are bigger on average than those not allowing standard plurals. And when the player creating a puzzle inputs the letters there are no size limits.
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Alan Walker
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