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Author Topic: 'Dooryard' common?  (Read 221 times)
blackrockrose
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« on: September 09, 2019, 02:21:00 PM »

In yesterday's 7-by-many HOORAYED game.

I've never hear of it before. Is it used in a particular country or region?
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mkenuk
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2019, 03:10:15 PM »

Nine times out of ten, when playing Chi and you meet a 'common' word that you've never heard of, it will turn out to be, as in this case, North American. ('a yard or garden by the door of a house' according to the COD, in which we trust.)

It's not surprising to encounter such words, since Chi's lexicon is based on an American word list (YAWL), but it can be annoying when you spend ages looking for a word you've never seen before.

It's a new one on me.
I wonder if there is any possibility of it finding its way into a 'normal' 9/10-letter game?
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Ozzyjack
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2019, 03:16:56 PM »

A quick visit to google shows it has almost universal usage, the proviso being that you live in Maine.

Quote

Dooryard. Another term for driveway is the word dooryard, which is used in New England, primarily in Maine, according to Martha Barnette, co-host of the radio show A Way With Words. Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary says dooryard was first used in 1764, referring to the yard next to the door of the house.


It was probably first used in Australia in 2019.  Demon
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 03:19:15 PM by Ozzyjack » Logged

Cheers, Jack



“Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.” ― Bertrand Russell
Ozzyjack
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2019, 03:45:13 PM »

P.S.

To be fair, Alan did warn us in his response on Jerkwater.


There could be quite a few surprises awaiting us in the 7-by-many puzzles, in the form of words that might be badly labeled but have never shown themselves in any puzzles before.
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Cheers, Jack



“Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.” ― Bertrand Russell
Alan W
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2019, 04:35:40 PM »

It's an easy decision to reclassify this word, so I will. In the News on the Web corpus dooryard comes up 0.01 times per million in the United States and 0.02 times per million in Canada. In the UK and Australia it comes up zero times. And many of the US examples are from the title of the Walt Whitman poem When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd, an elegy on the death of Abraham Lincoln.

To answer MK's question, no there's no possibility of the word appearing in a 9- or 10-letter puzzle.

I have to pick you up on a couple of points, MK. Your statement that, "Nine times out of ten, when playing Chi and you meet a 'common' word that you've never heard of, it will turn out to be, as in this case, North American" may be valid for those of us brought up with a British variety of English. However, from a less parochial point of view, a player from North America is likely to find that the unfamiliar "common" word turns out to be British and/or Australian.

Also, the origin of the YAWL word list is not relevant to words being common or rare. It was the original source of the complete word list, but the tagging of words as common or rare was done using other sources. As to exactly how a particular word came to be classed as common 14 years ago - that's something I'm not in a position to answer.
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Alan Walker
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mkenuk
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2019, 06:09:31 PM »

I take your point(s), Alan.
Mike
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blackrockrose
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2019, 03:29:34 PM »

Thank you for your prompt response, Alan.
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birdy
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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2019, 03:44:44 AM »

I'm surprised that it is so uncommon in North America, as it doesn't seem at all unusual to me.  But, as Alan noted, many of the hits would have been from the Walt Whitman poem. I Googled the term "dooryard plants," one of the ways I've usually heard it and found only 1210 hits, and "dooryard garden" and found 5610 more (4250 for "dooryard gardens").  But one of them was from a magazine published in the Midwest and widely circulated all over the country, and some of the references were to dooryard gardens in Texas, so I think the word has escaped its New England origins.

I wonder if the non-Americans wouldn't think of it because (I think) you use the word "garden" rather than "yard." Would the equivalent be "cottage garden"? But I think our dooryard gardens aren't limited to the exuberance of what I think of as a cottage garden.

Dooryard. Another term for driveway is the word dooryard, which is used in New England, primarily in Maine, according to Martha Barnette, co-host of the radio show A Way With Words. Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary says dooryard was first used in 1764, referring to the yard next to the door of the house.

I've never heard dooryard used for driveways - two separate things, though they may both be located near the entrance to the house.
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mkenuk
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2019, 10:19:21 AM »


I wonder if the non-Americans wouldn't think of it because (I think) you use the word "garden" rather than "yard."
.

I think there is a difference between British and American usage here. I don't know about Oz and NZ.

To me a 'yard' - or, more commonly, a 'backyard' - is an area at the back of a house, usually used for keeping the dustbins, parking bikes etc.
In older houses it was where the toilet was to be found. Indoor sanitation was a luxury in  pre-war houses in the UK.
The backyard is not a place for growing things; start planting things in the backyard and it becomes a garden / back-garden.

A cottage garden is what it says - a garden attached to a cottage.

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Ozzyjack
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2019, 10:36:47 AM »

Back in the day, when the average Aussie could afford to achieve the Australian Dream the backyard was where you played Backyard Cricket.

Click here for the 11 undisputed rules of Backyard Cricket
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Cheers, Jack



“Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.” ― Bertrand Russell
mkenuk
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2019, 10:47:41 AM »

Yes, I watched the film Backyard Ashes on your recommendation.
Great fun.
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